we are so writing this.

[fatima]

Sofek, the Angel of Gayness, appeared before Spock and said unto him: It is Good.
—The Book of Spock, a companion to Transfiguration

Seriously though, GUYS, WILL YOU PLEASE JUMP EACH OTHER ALREADY!!!???

(ICness is such a bitch sometimes, sigh.)

Comments

[no-detective.livejournal.com]

Oh, oh, the Dream Sex is a cliche - but it's not a BAD cliche. And the part about surreal-to-realistic is not a prescription I've seen anywhere else; it's just the kind of fictional Dream that, um, works for me based on random stuff I've read over the years and can't even remember anymore. Except for how hot it was. :)

Btw, I have great faith in the power of Spock's subconscious imagination. Also good about dreams? They don't have to be detailed like visual porn; sensations will do. Not to mention, completely harmless details from a dream (a shirt sleeve, a glass of water, an eyelash, literally whatever) can result in spectacular flashbacks/associations when the dreamer and the... dreamee? LOL... meet in the daytime.

And besides, cliches are MANDATORY in this fandom.

[snowlight.livejournal.com]

completely harmless details from a dream (a shirt sleeve, a glass of water, an eyelash, literally whatever) can result in spectacular flashbacks/associations when the dreamer and the... dreamee?

That is INTRIGUING.

buoy ARE YOU TAKING THIS DOWN??

[no-detective.livejournal.com]

*steeples fingers in a totally non-evil fashion*

Excellent!

Btw, if you use a Hemingway-esque narrative for the dream (I'll copy a sample passage in another comment), throw in a few Trek/Vulcan symbols and mix them up with no more than three references to the Song of Solomon (because hey, on topic but no need for overkill), you'll probably enjoy the result.

Umm, something like: Spock is searching for someone who is not there, and the vineyard looks endless, the grapes are sometimes apples and sometimes lilies and sometimes silver, and then he finds - him, of course, that's who he was searching for, and he reaches out to shake his hand but then he sees a trickle of blood flowing out of the young man's shirt sleeve, and he is worried and begins to look for the place where the blood comes from - but the young man just laughs, he is not hurt, his skin is smooth and whole and untouched, marble white against the green bed (the same color as the blood, Spock thinks, and this makes sense), and when he lies down with him the clouds crumble softly in the sky like pomegranates, the land dry and red and sharp embracing them with cliffs and mountain tops in the distance, and in the center of this circle he can see an eyelash that's fallen onto that pale, soft cheek, and he reaches for it, gently, but somehow that single motion continues as if coming to life of its own, flows onwards, becomes a wave, then a rhythm, pulling them both deeper and deeper into its endlessness, warmer and faster and... etc. etc.

Something like that. (Uh, it's a little scary how easily this kind of stuff just rolls out once you set up a few... parameters.)

[snowlight.livejournal.com]

Oh wow. XD

(And your icon! OMG! Pomegranate! Hades/Persephone analogy anyone? Ok I'll stop now...)

Songs of Solomon has been very, uh, inspirational. With passages such as "you have made my heart beat faster with a single glance of your eyes" and "if only you were to me like a brother, who was nursed at my mother's breasts! Then, if I found you outside, I would kiss you, and no one would despise me." I mean, the sappiness kind of writes itself.

Our current dream sex sequence is pretty straightforward (i.e., confessional booth). But I really like the idea about vineyards! Instead of pomegranate, though, Kirk can eat an apple (aka The Apple of I Don't Believe in No-Win Scenarios). Later they can meet up at Pike's place, and, uh, yeah. Stuff happens.

Random note though. I LOVE POMEGRANATE. SO MUCH.

[no-detective.livejournal.com]

I LOVE POMEGRANATE TOO! It's my favorite!

But oh, the apple. It's almost too perfect! I... dammit, I'm going to have to lock myself away from LJ because my yearning to read this WiP is sort of killing me a little, and I have to let it subside to manageable levels. *flails*

It should go without saying that anything I, ahem, offer up to you ladies is hereby at your disposal - ideas, imagery, whatever. As long as it leads to PIKE'S PLACE WHERE STUFF HAPPENS. I am so, so excited about this, I can't even... yeah.

[snowlight.livejournal.com]

Yeah, if we end up using the vineyard/apple idea (and I hope we will) we will definitely give credit where it's due. :D

On a separate note, I think it would be best to approach this matter with relative calm. Writing long, plotty, falling-in-love kind of fic has never been my strong point. I'd hate to disappoint people. :)

[no-detective.livejournal.com]

Gotcha - my apologies if the cheerleading morphs into pressure, as I'm sure a pushy reader is the last thing an author needs while trying to work. :) And seriously, I've been in online fandom for over 12 years; you guys don't owe me (or anyone else) anything, and if the fic doesn't come together in the end, I'll have had the pleasure of sharing the squee over this idea with you. Which is AWESOME!

OK, going to bed for real this time. Good luck, and thanks again for that OMGsodelicious crumb of hot hot K/S porn! :D

[snowlight.livejournal.com]

I'm pretty sure we are going to finish this thing. The end is in sight, kind of. Even though it's quite far away. :) I was just afraid that our writing will not adequately express the awesomeness that is inherently K/S'.

And oh, I just remembered, you are in NYC! I'm in the city quite frequently, if you ever want to hang out to squee about K/S let me know. :D

[no-detective.livejournal.com]

Oh, pfffft - and here I got worried for a second! :D Seriously, this is fandom: just write what you feel passionately about, and the awesomeness will HAPPEN. How can it not with this pairing?

How did I fail to notice that you're local?! That would be great - let me get through this weekend (family stuff) and I'll get in touch. Yay!

[no-detective.livejournal.com]

Forgot to add: and then think what happens next time Jim wears the same shirt as in the dream, or rubs at his eye and ends up with an eyelash on his cheek. Spock would have ASSOCIATIONS.

*glee*

OMG, please kick me out of your business whenever you feel it's necessary. I just... CAN'T SEEM TO RESIST POKING MY NOSE IN.

[snowlight.livejournal.com]

FYI: The next time they meet after the dream sex, Jim jumps Spock—in Spock's own apartment.

And yes, it's definitely fun to see Spock squirm with all those associations. I'll talk with buoy to see if we can work that vineyard/apple thing in, at the very least.

We are currently having some difficulties with laying the foundation for ending, so brain teasers are always welcome, I assure you. :)

[no-detective.livejournal.com]

\o/

YES FOR THE JUMPING!!!!!

I'll probably come back with a few thoughts, but right now it's 2am and I'll have another 12-hour day at work tomorrow, so... best to go attempt sleep.

(Which might be difficult with all the sweet, sweet promises and imagery you've just shared - omg in a confessional omg omg - but I am really not complaining. REALLY.)

[no-detective.livejournal.com]

So, hey - having issues with the ending? Anything in particular? I'm assuming this is about Spock's departure from the Church.

[snowlight.livejournal.com]

We had an ending, but elected to change it because it was deemed too dramatic (and involving a whole other can of worms).

For our new ending, we needed to lay some foreshadowing in the earlier chapters.

Our biggest problem at the moment is still how to realistically portray Spock's attempt to reconcile his relationship with Kirk and his identity as a clergy member in the Roman Catholic Church.

[no-detective.livejournal.com]

Got it. When it comes to such dramatic changes in one's life, it's kinda hard NOT to go too far.

If you need to reveal that Spock has been having problems with the Church in the past, but don't want to rewrite a lot of what you've already completed... well, people who reach such significant crossroads sometimes try to look back, to find the traces of their own doubts or issues, and to convince themselves it's not a totally new thing caused by - let's say - just one guy they happen to be crazy about. Do you think Spock would look at his old diaries (if he kept any)? Read old letters? Seek out family or friends who'd known him before he joined the Church, to remind him whether he had any doubts at the time (and is not just imagining it to help himself rationalize the clash in his life)? People who start out with doubts can work very hard to suppress them; as a result, their commitment to the relationship/institution/lifestyle LOOKS more stable, solid, and clear-cut than other people's in a similar position. And unearthing those issues is never easy... but it doesn't mean they're not there.

(I'm kinda rambling here. Does this help or just make things more fuzzy?)

Anyway, I suspect you're probably working with the idea of Spock having been gay all his life, but never being in love before. I also suspect that his mother always supported him. :) That's some pretty fertile ground for developing self-awareness and redefining one's faith - and I say that as a friend of a few gay men who'd seriously considered becoming priests. (In another country, a different church, and having to deal with much higher level of homophobia, so it's not really a good example - but it's a good general frame of reference.)

If I mention a book that might be helpful, would that make you cry? :p


ETA: I'm taking my chance anyway... The Good Book by Peter Gomes. I can't find my copy, otherwise I'd offer to lend it to you.

[snowlight.livejournal.com]

I think I understand you....

The thing is, prior to this, Spock never had any doubt. And he was raised by the Church (in the form of Pike---I point to TOS connection between Pike and Spock). Pike was the one who, in his infinite wisdom, had doubts about Spock's suitability for the vocation. We wrote out Sarek and Amanda altogether so his parental figure is Pike, who's the priest in charge of the whole thing. So you see, Pike can't exactly tell him hey you go frolic with your boyfriend now.

As for the possible meet-up, I'm extremely swamped this weekend, but pretty free afterwards. If you make it a weekend buoy can probably come, too!

[no-detective.livejournal.com]

Ohhh, I see. That's a different story. Pike's influence makes a lot of sense; so does his insight (he's a smart guy).

Now I'm really curious about Spock's self-awareness and attitude toward his own sexuality, but maybe that's too big of a topic to unravel here... hmm. I should be pretty free next weekend; you gals wanna get brunch and tell me ALL ABOUT IT? :D

[snowlight.livejournal.com]

How does Saturday lunch in Manhattan sound to you? Do you have any eatery in mind? I have a few reasonably priced (by NYC standards) Asian places that I frequent (Chinese/Japanese/Korean), but we are open to suggestions!

[no-detective.livejournal.com]

Sounds great! Let me email you for details. :)

[no-detective.livejournal.com]

This is Hemingway writing sex that would pass the publishing censorship of his contemporaries:

***

Then there was the smell of heather crushed and the roughness of the bent stalks under her head and the sun bright on her closed eyes and all his life he would remember the curve of her throat with her head pushed back into the heather roots and her lips that moved smally and by themselves and the fluttering of the lashes on the eyes tight closed against the sun and against everything, and for her everything was red, orange, gold-red from the sun on the closed eyes, and it was that color, all of it, the filling, the possessing, the having, all of that color, all in a blindness of that color. For him it was a dark passage which led to nowhere, then to nowhere, then again to nowhere, once again to nowhere, always and forever to nowhere, heavy on the elbows in the earth to nowhere, dark, never any end to nowhere, hung on all time always to unknowing nowhere, this time and again for always to nowhere, now not to be borne once again always and to nowhere, now beyond all bearing up, up, up and into nowhere, suddenly, scaldingly, holdingly all nowhere gone and time absolutely still and they were both there, time having stopped and he felt the earth move out and away from under them.

Then he was lying on his side, his head deep in the heather, smelling it and the smell of the roots and the earth and the sun came through it and it was scratchy on his bare shoulders and along his flanks and the girl was lying opposite him with her eyes still shut and then she opened them and smiled at him and he said very tiredly and from a great but friendly distance, "Hello rabbit." And she smiled and from no distance said, "Hello, my Ingles."

***

Vague enough?

[snowlight.livejournal.com]

Uh-huh. They were doing it out in the open?

And I noticed a distinct lack of punctuations in the first four lines or so.

-----------------------------

He could not move. Could not do so even though his mind cried out for it, and as deft fingers slid down his chest and thighs, pushing them apart, he was powerless to stop them. Wet lips on a dusky blond head traced a path down his suddenly exposed skin and he just leaned his head back, an oh no dissolving in the air around his gasping, wordless breath. He was dying. His body no longer belonged to him, and his soul had already been vanquished under the impossible heat.

Tell me to stop, the voice demanded.

He didn't.

Report me. Throw me back out onto the street.

He couldn't.

-----------------------------

Porny enough?

[no-detective.livejournal.com]

...

*FORGETS TO BREATHE*

I - yes. I would say that is, indeed, PORNY ENOUGH.

OMG. OMG.

*goes back to read again and again*

OT

[buoy.livejournal.com]

I love your icon.

Kirk's actually holding his hands in place

Re: OT

[no-detective.livejournal.com]

YES, HE IS.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees that.